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amiga-news.de Forum > Amiga > Amiga Inc. never had source to OS3.1 3.5 & 3.9 [ - Search - New posts - Register - Login - ]

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2007-05-28, 00:20 h

Markus_Bieler
Posts: 333
User
Taken from 34decmossamigainjunctiopnshow_case_doc.pdf

13. From my review of Hyperion's opposition, I understand that Hyperions
claims that Amiga somehow breached the Agreement because Hyperion obtained
the source code for OS 3.1, 3.5 and 3.9 from someone or somwhere other
than Amiga. It is clear to me, based both on the parties' negotiations
and other documnet contemporaneous with those negotiations, that Hyperion
knew at or near the time it enterered into the Agreement that it would be
obtaining the source code to OS 3.1 from Mr. Olaf Barthel and the source
code for OS 3.5 and OS 3.9 from Haage and Partner.
Amiga entered into the Agreement based on these assurances from Hyperion
that it already had secured or could secure access to the source codes
necessary to develop OS4.0. Indeeed, this was one of the reasons that
entering into the Agreement with Hyperion was so appealing at the time.



That means. Hyperion didn't lie when saying they didn't get the source from
A-Inc

--
Bild: http://mitglied.lycos.de/amiga1000/bilder/A1kOrg_Che.gif

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2007-05-30, 22:41 h

Cego
Posts: 1560
User
do you know what i think? i think that both companies want to take the amiga further. i know that you're going to blame amiga inc for the messed up situation, but what else than waiting could you do in their situation, when there ain't no products to release? Hardware was and is more or less senseless when there's no appropriate software for it. THe AmigaOne was the proof.
OS4 is finally done, so just let's wait and see.
Bill is running a company and i don't think that he's just sitting around and giving a f*** about his business. every normal business man wants to get out products to earn money and make profit. so i believe that both sides have their goals in pushing the amiga further. it took quite a time to develop OS4, so it would be quite senseless to leave it dying, just because of some nonsense indifferences.
--
Tjo, jetzt gibts nix mehr zum lesen, außer das hier :D

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2007-05-31, 09:12 h

aPEX
Posts: 4692
User
Zitat:
Original von Cego:
but what else than waiting could you do in their situation, when there ain't no products to release?


They could do very much if they want... To work in such a company you must be a real man with visions and ideas and not a lazy truck-driver.

Zitat:
Bill is running a company and i don't think that he's just sitting around and giving a f*** about his business.

YES, YES, YES!!! You forgott to say... making a nice life with the money from the stupid investors. ;)

--
Bild: http://apex.gmxhome.de/a1ksmall.png www.a1k.org - The dark side of amiga computing

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2007-05-31, 13:08 h

DrNOP
Posts: 4118
User
Zitat:
Original von Cego:
Bill is running a company and i don't think that he's just sitting around and giving a f*** about his business.


Well ... define "business". :D
I'm pretty convinced driving Amiga OS4 is not part of what he sees as his "business" ... :(
--
Signaturen mit mehr als zwei Zeilen gehen mir auf den Wecker

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2007-05-31, 15:09 h

Cego
Posts: 1560
User
let's say it like this, he doesn't really make profit, because there are no real products to sell and sometime there won't be any investors left to give him money. so if he doesn't get anything to work soon, his company will go under.

you think they could've done something? tell me what? the whole desktop amiga business was blocked by hyperion, while they where still developing on the OS. And I'm pretty sure that driving the OS4 is part of his business, but there was no OS4 for the last 5 years, so he had no possibilities to realize his "visions" etc.
Without OS4 he tried to keep his company alive with all this mobile trash stuff. it's quite logical (well, at least for me :D ), i mean lets wait and see. OS4 was totally in the hands of Hyperion, even if amiga inc had liked to do something for the amiga, that we know in our sense, they wouldn't have been able to.
--
Tjo, jetzt gibts nix mehr zum lesen, außer das hier :D

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2007-06-04, 06:35 h

DrZarkov
Posts: 702
User
Ve are all Krauts hier in sis Forum. The thread has been started by a German, all answers came by Germans. Vhy do we vrite in english vith German accent and not in German?

Die Amtssprache ist Deutsch.
--
Dr. Zarkov

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2007-06-04, 09:13 h

DrNOP
Posts: 4118
User
Zitat:
Original von DrZarkov:
Die Amtssprache ist Deutsch.

Wir sind hier doch aber nicht auf einem Amt, oder?
... obwohl, wenn man eine Frage stellt kommt die Antwort erst wenn der Antwortende Zeit und wirklich nichts anderes was wichtiger sein könnte zu tun hat. Irgendwie schon wie auf 'nem Amt ... :D :P

Aber dieses englische Forum wurde doch aus "technischen Gründen" eingerichtet (interessiert eigentlich niemand außer mir, was dabei wohl technische Gründe sein könnten?), also unterhalten wir uns wohl aus technischen Gründen auf Englisch.

[ Dieser Beitrag wurde von DrNOP am 04.06.2007 um 09:15 Uhr geändert. ]

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2007-06-04, 11:42 h

Holger
Posts: 8081
User
Zitat:
Original von DrZarkov:
The thread has been started by a German, all answers came by Germans. Vhy do we vrite in english vith German accent and not in German?


This thread has been started with a topic, all answers were on topic. Why do you write senseless complaints and not something useful to the topic?

regards,
...

--
Good coders do not comment. What was hard to write should be hard to read too.

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2007-06-04, 14:05 h

Cego
Posts: 1560
User
yeah right, I'm german...
--
Tjo, jetzt gibts nix mehr zum lesen, außer das hier :D

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2007-06-04, 14:17 h

_PAB_
Posts: 3016
User
There will be an announcement soon about the english board that has been created for discussions in english and that is already linked from the english homepage.

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2007-06-04, 16:50 h

DrNOP
Posts: 4118
User
What now? "soon" or "already linked"?
--
Signatures with more than two lines are going on my alarm clock :-P

[ Dieser Beitrag wurde von DrNOP am 05.06.2007 um 12:55 Uhr geändert. ]

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2007-06-05, 10:55 h

_PAB_
Posts: 3016
User
@DrNOP:
"already linked on the english homepage" & "announcement about this and other things will come soon".
Please keep on topic and in the desired language or mind this board, please...

[ Dieser Beitrag wurde von _PAB_ am 05.06.2007 um 10:57 Uhr geändert. ]

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2007-06-25, 10:01 h

DJBase
Posts: 3354
[Former member]
Irgendwie finde ich das Lustig hier. Getreu nach dem Motto, wenn man die Zielgruppe schon nicht erreicht, dann muß man dem Forum eben selbst einen Sinn geben bevor man sich blamiert.



--
:boing: AmigaWorld - Amiga Support Network
:peggy: PegasosForum - Pegasos Support Forum & Community

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2007-06-25, 11:09 h

analogkid
Posts: 2388
User
Complain in english, please ;)
--
Join us @ Sarkasmus-pur
:amiga: :dance1:

Talking about music is like dancing about architecture

[ Dieser Beitrag wurde von analogkid am 25.06.2007 um 11:09 Uhr geändert. ]

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2007-06-25, 19:52 h

ArminHuebner
Posts: 1349
User
Yeah, yeah, Yeah!
Only AMIGA makes it possible! :)

--
Gruß, Armin.
--
'Auch wenn alle einer Meinung sind, können alle Unrecht haben.'

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2007-07-24, 07:38 h

dandy
Posts: 2552
User
Zitat:
Original von Cego:

let's say it like this, he doesn't really make profit, because there are no real products to sell and sometime there won't be any investors left to give him money.


But exactly that is his very own fault!

Remember - back in 2000/2001 he nearly every week made new announcements about having hired this and that person from this and that big companies development team and that A1/OS4 "are on schedule and rocking".

Had he really hired just half the amount of top developers from the "outside" industry instead just lying to the public, he wouldn't be without any real product today.

Zitat:
Original von Cego:

so if he doesn't get anything to work soon, his company will go under.


Yeah!
The sooner, the better...

Zitat:
Original von Cego:

you think they could've done something? tell me what?


How about sticking to their own words?

As I said above - had he really hired just half the amount of top developers from the "outside" industry instead just lying to the public, he wouldn't be without any real product today...

Zitat:
Original von Cego:

the whole desktop amiga business was blocked by hyperion,


That is nonsense, and if you somehow followed the events around the Amiga over the last couple of years you should very well know this.

In contrary to AInc Hyperion actually did real work on OS4. They actually did the coding, while BillMcEwing was just boastfully talking about it.

Zitat:
Original von Cego:

while they where still developing on the OS.


No-one at AInc ever wrote a single line of code for OS4.

They have nobody on board and never had with the necessary skillset.

They're just thy typical dumb american marketing/business "experts" - and maybe there's one among them that should better have continued driving trucks instead of driving a computer platform into the ground...

Zitat:
Original von Cego:

And I'm pretty sure that driving the OS4 is part of his business, but there was no OS4 for the last 5 years, so he had no possibilities to realize his "visions" etc.


I don't know what you're on - but he certainly never had any other plans for desktop Amiga OS originally than to let it die.

IIRC it were others who persuaded him to update the desktop OS...

His vision from the beginning was this mobile anywhere/nowhere crap.

Which movie did you watch during the last years? It certainly wasn't the "Amiga" one...

Zitat:
Original von Cego:

Without OS4 he tried to keep his company alive with all this mobile trash stuff.


Nahhhhh - I rather think he (or Pentti Kouri) sees AInc as a tax write-off model...

Zitat:
Original von Cego:

...
OS4 was totally in the hands of Hyperion, even if amiga inc had liked to do something for the amiga, that we know in our sense, they wouldn't have been able to.


O.K. - brief coaching:
When Amino took over in early 2000 and renamed themselves to AInc later, all there was was OS3.9 - and this belonged to AInc and Haage & Partner.

AInc wanted to switch over to the "code once, run anywhere" thingie from the very beginning, which I basically thought to be a good idea at the time.

That was the time when they announced new high-value developers nearly every second day.

Everybody was confident (because of Bills announcements) that with so many high-level developers on board it would be just a matter of months to get this done.

Despite Bills boastfull announcements there was no visible progress and so they were approached and urged by third parties to provide an upgrade path for the existing Amiga user base.

They informed the team around BillMcEwing that a project to bring AmigaOS to PPC was being worked on for several years:
MorphOS.

So AInc chose MorphOS as "next generation Amiga OS" and DCE was meant to provide the new hardware.

But then something mysterious happened behind the scenes and everything changed.

Hyperion and Eyetech entered the stage and were contracted to develop OS4 and the AmigaOne, while before that everything was in AInc's own hands...


--
Ciao,

Dandy

Wenn es jemandem Spaß macht, zu Marschmusik in Reih' und Glied zu marschieren, so verachte ich ihn schon.
Er hat sein Großhirn nur aus Versehen bekommen - bei ihm hätte auch schon das Rückenmark gereicht!
(Albert Einstein)

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2007-07-24, 07:52 h

dandy
Posts: 2552
User
Zitat:
Original von DrZarkov:


...
Vhy do we vrite in english vith German accent and not in German?
...


Perhaps to exercise our "English" abilities?


--
Ciao,

Dandy

Wenn es jemandem Spaß macht, zu Marschmusik in Reih' und Glied zu marschieren, so verachte ich ihn schon.
Er hat sein Großhirn nur aus Versehen bekommen - bei ihm hätte auch schon das Rückenmark gereicht!
(Albert Einstein)

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2007-07-24, 09:52 h

Andreas_Wolf
Posts: 2980
User
> DCE was meant to provide the new hardware.

Dou you mean the Microserver? I'd rather say that bplan was supposed to provide the Pegasos.

> Hyperion and Eyetech entered the stage and were contracted to develop
> OS4 and the AmigaOne, while before that everything was in AInc's own hands...

Hyperion and Eyetech had been on stage for some while already. Under Haage & Partner's AOS4 project leadership, Hyperion were supposed to develop the 3D API (Mesa) and 3D games for AOS4 while Eyetech were to provide the original AmigaOne (from Escena) as the target platform for AOS4. So while the AOS4 project leadership indeed did change, the supposed target hardware and its vendor at the same time did not.
There has *never* been one single bit of anything AOS4 in Amiga Inc's hands.

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2007-07-24, 13:32 h

dandy
Posts: 2552
User
Zitat:
Original von Andreas_Wolf:

Zitat:
Original von Dandy:

DCE was meant to provide the new hardware.


Dou you mean the Microserver?


Can't remember what it was called back then...

Zitat:
Original von Andreas_Wolf:

I'd rather say that bplan was supposed to provide the Pegasos.


That was somewhat later on and with Thendic/Genesi (not with AInc), IIRC...

Zitat:
Original von Andreas_Wolf:

Zitat:
Original von Dandy:

Hyperion and Eyetech entered the stage and were contracted to develop
OS4 and the AmigaOne, while before that everything was in AInc's own hands...


Hyperion and Eyetech had been on stage for some while already.


Of course they existed and were publically known for some while already - but I was more referring to the period before they were introduced as AIncs new "partners" for the A1/OS4 project (by AInc).

Initially it had been announced that the new HW would come from DCE (Merlancia was mentioned as well at this time - IIRC they were meant to do the planning, while DCE was meant to do the production), and that MorphOS should become the NG AmigaOS.

IIRC the MorphOS project had been launched by Phase5 and their software engineers went to H&P after P5 went bust, while the HW engineers ended up at bplan/DCE.

Zitat:
Original von Andreas_Wolf:

Under Haage & Partner's AOS4 project leadership, Hyperion were supposed to develop the 3D API (Mesa) and 3D games for AOS4 while Eyetech were to provide the original AmigaOne (from Escena) as the target platform for AOS4. So while the AOS4 project leadership indeed did change, the supposed target hardware and its vendor at the same time did not.


I wasn't aware that there was a period where H&P and Eyetech were in that boat together - I can only recall that H&P/DCE/BPlan period - but my memory might be aging...

Zitat:
Original von Andreas_Wolf:

There has *never* been one single bit of anything AOS4 in Amiga Inc's hands.


:D
You are right - not a single bit (or byte) of the software.
But I was more referring to their responsibility for the platform as such...

"To have something in the own hands" can also have the meaning of being resposible for something...
;)

--
Ciao,

Dandy

Wenn es jemandem Spaß macht, zu Marschmusik in Reih' und Glied zu marschieren, so verachte ich ihn schon.
Er hat sein Großhirn nur aus Versehen bekommen - bei ihm hätte auch schon das Rückenmark gereicht!
(Albert Einstein)

[ Dieser Beitrag wurde von dandy am 24.07.2007 um 13:33 Uhr geändert. ]

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2007-07-24, 23:54 h

Andreas_Wolf
Posts: 2980
User
> Can't remember what it was called back then...

As MorphOS was never officially planned as AOS4, there has never been hardware announced for MorphOS as AOS4 specifically. So I've really no clue what (DCE) hardware you mean.
There was just the Microserver announced (in April 2001 and thus shortly before the consideration of MorphOS as AOS4), but that was meant to be for MorphOS in general, not specifically for MorphOS as AOS4.

http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-04-00046-DE.html (German, sorry ;-)
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-06-00143-EN.html


> That was somewhat later on and with Thendic/Genesi (not with AInc)

The Pegasos was announced December 2000 by bplan:
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2000-12-00111-DE.html (German)

Thendic France publicly stepped in not before April 2002:
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2002-04-00134-EN.html

The Pegasos has been a target platform for MorphOS from the very beginning:
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-02-00252-DE.html (German)

It was first reported running MorphOS in August 2001:
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-08-00305-EN.html

But this has just as little or much to do with an AOS4 incarnation of MorphOS as the DCE Microserver. It's just that these boards probably would have been able to run such OS as they were supposed to run MorphOS anyway. So the Pegasos had something to do with Amiga Inc. in an implicit way during that time of negotiations with the makers of MorphOS.


> Of course they existed and were publically known for some while already

This is not what I meant. I was referring to the original AOS4 project which was started in March/April 2001:

http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-04-00005-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-04-00007-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-04-00010-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-04-00142-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-05-00128-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-05-00154-DE.html (German)

Although Amiga Inc. pretended it to be their project you can quite easily guess that they did what they are best in: nothing. The main task (OS coding/porting) was Haage & Partner's. And as mentioned, Hyperion took part in the project...

...and Eyetech were to deliver the AmigaOne hardware developed by Escena:
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-06-00240-EN.html

This hardware had infact been announced way before. It evolved from the BrainStormer and the Predator Plus projects. As AmigaOne it should originally run AmigaDE as well as AOS3 in emulation:

http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2000-10-00260-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2000-10-00330-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2000-12-00161-DE.html (German)

Interestingly, the non-functional prototype of the Escena AmigaOne was manufactured by DCE, who had somehow been involved in Escena'a Brainstormer project and later placed them at Eyetech. Maybe this caused your confusion concerning DCE?


> but I was more referring to the period before they were introduced
> as AIncs new "partners" for the A1/OS4 project (by AInc).

Me too, see above.


> Initially it had been announced that the new HW would come from DCE

Again: Which announcement? By whom? Which hardware?


> Merlancia was mentioned as well at this time

Merlancia were especially keen on mentioning themselves rather than being mentioned by someone else:

http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2000-10-00273-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2000-10-00283-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2000-12-00184-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-06-00238-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-06-00311-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-06-00312-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-07-00323-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-07-00338-EN.html

And these are just the hardware announcements, which all turned out to be bogus. It is also worth mentioning that bplan denied any affiliation with Merlancia.

Few people dared to officially talk about Merlancia's hardware plans. Judge for yourself:

http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-04-00010-DE.html (German)
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-06-00309-EN.html
http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2001-08-00128-EN.html

Which official announcements not fabricated by Merlancia themselves did I miss that mentioned their hardware plans?


> IIRC they were meant to do the planning, while DCE was meant to do
> the production

I'm pretty sure Thomas Dellert would slap you in the face for making allegations that DCE was affiliated in any way with the Merlancia hoaxer(s) ;-)


> and that MorphOS should become the NG AmigaOS.

Such was *never* announced, just mentioned by Ralph Schmidt in retrospective in October 2001...

...in the comments section to this:
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/AN-2001-10-00001-DE.html (German)

...which resulted in the famous 'party on' thread on ANN:
http://www.ann.lu/comments2.cgi?view=1002052615&category=forum


> IIRC the MorphOS project had been launched by Phase5

MorphOS has been launched in 1998 by Ralph Schmidt and others as a private project. Ralph also worked for Phase5, and he probably would have sold or licensed MorphOS to them.


> and their software engineers went to H&P after P5 went bust

Haha, that's so funny I'm laughing my socks off right now :-D
Where dou you have that utter nonsense from? Never heard about the 'WarpOS vs. PowerUP' war?


> while the HW engineers ended up at bplan/DCE.

Thomas Knäbel and Gerald Carda of Phase5 fame founded bplan, right. But this has absolutely nothing to do with DCE.


> I wasn't aware that there was a period where H&P and Eyetech were in
> that boat together

There was, from March/April 2001 until October/November 2001 when Hyperion took over from Haage & Partner. See above.


> I can only recall that H&P/DCE/BPlan period

This one I can't recall. Tell me more, please :-)


> "To have something in the own hands" can also have the meaning of
> being resposible for something...

You wrote 'everything', not 'something'.

[ Dieser Beitrag wurde von Andreas_Wolf am 25.07.2007 um 00:10 Uhr geändert. ]

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